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Infidelity: What are your thoughts on it? Expand / Collapse
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Posted 03 May 2017 16:28


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(This subject was brought up in thread for "Don't Give Me Those Eyes" video. I bet it's something we all have an opinion on, but lets leave the opinion about the video in that thread, and discuss the idea infidelity here.

I've copied what I wrote earlier in the other thread here to continue the conversation. )



Infidelity is such volatile subject, I can see people who have been hurt or whose life was been touched by infidelity having very strong reaction to it.

I think we all share the same feelings, but those feeling in different people lead to different reactions.

I've been cheated on twice. The first time was really awful, I was young and didn't have the life skills to deal with it. The second time was worse, because more was at stake, but I was older and handled it differently.

I've come to the conclusion that while there are serial cheaters, the majority of people who have affairs are probably normal people who are desperately unhappy in the situation they find themselves in. The circumstance of their birth, the values they were raise with, their self evaluation may have contribute towards making that mistake. That's so human, and for me, that is forgivable.

No one from the outside can know the insides of a marriage, not even the children who lives in the house, hearing and seeing the things they do. People are having open marriages, polyamorous relationship and all kinds of situations. Of course it is not ideal, but I think most people are trying their best to deal with their own situation.

Have you ever watch "The Theory of Everything" it is based on the life of Stephen Hawking. Hawking suffers from ALS, his first wife took on a lover. In the movie, Hawking was fine with it. The wife's lover took on the physical care of Hawking. I though that was such a selfless loving way to deal with a difficult situation. I bet they don't talk about it with their neighbours.

I've seen divorces, in which the men cheated, left their wife and children. Abandoned the physical, emotional and financial care/responsibility towards their children. In those situations, I'm as disgusted as you are.
Post #283066
Posted 03 May 2017 18:14


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ladyapplebox (02/05/2017)
A happy women mever leaves if they can see hope they will try and stick out unless they are traped. Getting involved in someones marrage always someone is going to get hurt, its easyer to get marryed then devoiced. Marrarge is more than the dress the party and the ring its beingfaith throw the good times and bad committing your love to one person and theres a sure bet that if she did it to her husband what makes you so different that she wouldnt do it to you.




I agree with everything you say here. I think we can all agree on the ideal of one man, one woman united and supportive of each other through life. But as we all know, what is suppose to happen doesn't always happen.

I'm not talking about serial cheaters. I'm talking normal people who enter marriage only to find out one them lied about something or unaware of how they really felt about an issue. For example:
- she didn't want to have children.
- he saw a different lifestyle.
- they have different sex drive.
- they have different outlooks in life.
- they don't share the same core values.
- they have different ideas on what it means to be loving and be loved.
That is by far not an exhaustive list. They're all issues that lead to much unhappiness before the extramarital affair even occurs.

And so I agree with what you wrote, but I don't think it's the complete picture.

Divorce before children, due to incompatibility, IMO, is a blessing in disguise. Whatever lead up to it, maybe an affair, is the consequence of both not paying attention to the needs of the other.

I think the idea that someone owes it to us to be unconditionally faithful and loving at all times and forever, is dangerous and disrespectful. Dangerous because we are ignoring the problems in front of us. Disrespectful because it complete disregard the humanity and life of the other person, someone we supposedly love.

After children are born, whatever the issues are, those children must come first. It becomes doubly important to work on those issues. Pointing fingers, calling each other names might feel good but it doesn't avert the heartbreak the children also feel when a parent indirect or otherwise informs them they not wanted anymore. Whatever suffering and pain you feel, the children feel it too, but they don't have the maturity to see that their parents are idiots and it's not any fault of their own.

Telling your spouse that they have no right to feel, think, want what they do; or conversely what they are supposed to do, think and feel. That to me is a recipe for disaster. They're not put on earth solely for the purpose of making us happy. They have their own thoughts and dreams. The consequence of not recognizing the full human being, and focusing only on our own needs is an unwinnable situation. Everyone loses, especially the children.

It seems the only sane thing to do, is put differences aside and say "I'm sorry you don't feel the same, but we have children, and we have to work together to make sure they're ok." It would hurt like hell, but the other way everybody hurts more. And so behind closed doors and curtains, people deal with it as best they can.

Maybe it feels good and safe to think that only this or that type of person was blind to the other person they married, or have an affair with. But we are all born into this world alone, and we die alone; we are all susceptible to fear and loneliness.

I'm in no way condoning infidelity. I wish everyone a blissful marriage. I just have sympathy for those whose hopes and dreams didn't pan out the way they planned.
Post #283067
Posted 07 May 2017 04:59


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What is it with you french people sending your girls over to new zealand they are sleeping in cars getting changed in the open. These kiwi boys will take them as easy inpregrated them and wait look after them teach your daughter to be distreat. If they want a kiwi boy to marry them get into childhood or early people they will keep them forever.
Post #283090
Posted 08 May 2017 16:43


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In the current state of the world, more than ever, I believe conversation is about speaking, and just as importantly, truly listening.

I guess what I was trying to say earlier is simply, don't stop at name calling and finger pointing, because it's not constructive and a disservice to yourself.

As someone who has learned the hard way, I'm saying, look with clear eyes at the person you're with, not who you would like him/her to be. Try to understand why he/she needs to make his/her life worth living. If you can give someone what they need, they will love you back. That's why love is fair. It doesn't care about money, status, education, race, religion or physical appearance. It just happens because it feels right, it satisfies a need, for that person.

You can't guilt anyone into loving you because they signed a piece of paper, had a party, wore a dress; especially if they're unhappy with the life they have.

People will evolve and change over the years, that is unavoidable. Over the years, both you and S.O. will find other people attractive. Maybe no one will ever admit it, but it's natural and human. Give them the safe space to sort it out and come back to you**, because if you truly belong together, you will grow together.

** unless they are abusive.
Post #283097
Posted 12 June 2017 17:06


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A few years back, we lived near a family that was going through a divorce. Our children went to school together. I was told that it was due to infidelity on the husband's part, he had left to live with another woman.

Before for the divorce, this family with 2 kids, lived in a 5 bedroom house with a swimming pool. Seeming successful and happy in every way. The children were happy, popular and thriving in school.

During the separation, the mom and 2 kids moved into a cramp 2 bedroom apartment. Mom had to take on longer working hours, and the children had to be on their own. The children made their own lunches, went hungry when they didn't. Hung out after school, neglected homework. There wasn't enough time for mom to care of everything.

Their daughter wanted to spend time with mine, but my daughter was to attend an after school program.
Their daughter seemed very interested and wanted to join, but she later told me, with her little face so sad and eyes downcast, that she couldn't because they can't afford it.

The husband refused to proceed with the divorce while he was already living with another woman. He refused to release money to his ex wife and their children. The mom had a lawyer, but paperwork takes time. Meanwhile, the children lost their opportunity to explore their full potential. There' a keen absence of 1.5 parents because Mom now has to work much longer hours. How do you measure that lost of in a child's life?

Worst than the financial set backs were the heartbreaks I saw on the little girl's face; each time we went out to eat as a family; my children spend time with their father at the movies; played in the park; rode the bicycle together. I remember the girl telling us excitedly that her father promised to take her to the movies, and almost every time, he cancelled on her. One the worst times, was when she quietly told me that her dad is now expecting a baby with this other woman. This little girl is beautiful, smart, and spunky. It absolutely fucking broke my heart watching her being torn down day after day, seeing the thousand cuts and the emotional scar that she will carry for the rest of her life.

At the time my marriage was falling apart. But seeing how much these neighbours hurt, I had a Scarlett O'hara moment; with fist shaking to the sky, I swore I would do whatever it takes to avert that heartbreak in my children's life.

It seems to me, in the face of all the pain, that being right, pointing the finger at him is a very hollow victory.
Post #283394
Posted 14 June 2017 18:50


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As I mentioned, my marriage had been falling apart, but in truth, it had been eroding for a very long time. Like everyone else, the start of our relationship was affectionate and nurturing. Enough so that we thought we could make it through this life together.

My husband was raised in religious family, where achievement is praised and highly valued. Even as a child, he was a star, happy, easily lovable, he even appear in a few commercials. He is well liked by almost everyone he meets. He is highly intelligent, funny, hard working, disciplined, persistent and a high achiever. He grew up following a preset course of how his life were to unfold. Like a checklist he completed each step spectacularly.

But he grew up with parents that were cold to each other, in a family where any and all problems were swept under the rug, left to fester unaddressed. They quoted religious doctrine but spent little time actually listening to each other.

Just like any man, he dated and chased women way out of his league. Then I came along, and in his words, it was so easy, we got along seamlessly. So happens we were of age, the next item on the checklist came up, and there I was in his life. What could possibly go wrong?

At some point after the wedding, it dawned on him, that this was it he was stuck with me for life, then came the realization that he didnít love me. But coming from his background, with all that was expected of him from his church and his family, everything he knew told him all he needed to do was try harder. And as someone who excelled at everything he set his mind to, the thought of failure was unthinkable. Divorce was failure, an embarrassment to him and his family. He assured me that he loves me. Oh and how about we start a family? Fake it Ďtil you make it, right?

In the ensuing years, I saw him completely disengaged from our family life and our children. He was gone at the drop of an excuse. He saw caring for the children as a favor to me. Then I saw love blossomed for him for the first time in his life. He fell in love for real. He did things for this woman that he never spontaneously did for me. Not a day goes by that I didnít hear what wonderful a person she was. Thatís when I knew he never loved me at all. It wasnít only immaturity that kept him disengaged from our children. But at which point did he not followed conventional wisdom?

At the time I felt so much anger. But he couldnít have been happy either. It must have felt like hell to him to be trapped, he must have wanted to be free so badly.

As much the truth hurt, it also weirdly set me free. I donít need him to love me, I just need him to do what I ask him to do for our children. While he was busy elsewhere, my children and I had our own life, we marched on with or without him. Later still, his romance fizzled out. He saw the life we built, our wonderful amazing children. He truly fell in love with them is a great father. He looked me and found a renew appreciation for how well we got along, LMAO !!


Iím telling a story that gets played out all the time, everywhere. These mistakes are so not uncommon as to be trite. Most of those who look outside their marriage are not extra evil or stupid, just misguided and flawed. Sometimes good people act out on flawed reasoning. Should I be irreparably broken? Should I hinge my worth based on how he treated me? How much of it is him? How much of it is me?

Maybe you have a friend, a brother/sister, a son/daughter who is going through something similar. I can tell you that there isnít one side that hurts more than the other, everyone is hurting. So please donít add to the pain by commenting thoughtlessly. Please let them find a solution that works for them. We are all just temporary passengers on this planet, is there really a need to be unkind?
Post #283406
Posted 22 June 2017 00:18


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Hats off to you, InnerSense

For being strong for your kids.


No doubt you weathered many storms, but ultimately you've handled it with grace.
Post #283501
Posted 23 June 2017 19:17


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Thank you MSF-fan.

Along with all the screw ups, I hope the final balance tip towards them knowing they are so loved.
Post #283517
Posted 23 June 2017 19:30


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One more post to close the loop ...
( ... and people with one liners think they're opinionated ... pffft!!)


Now, years later, of the family I previously mentioned; mom and children has moved to a more comfortable home. Our daughtersí path diverged, and it was sad to see a child, so bright, giving up on academic endeavors. However, this child is charismatic and has strong survival instincts, so I believe she will be fine in the end. Mom is in a serious relationship, and once again, she glows with happiness and is gorgeous.

Maybe she looks at me and thinks that I should have divorced. But we all have different priorities and different tolerance for what we can and canít live with. I donít judge her choice, as she couldnít have controlled her ex-husbandís choices. During the separation and divorce, she was shocked and unable to recognize the man who had been her husband. Itís like he was a different person to her.

Iím not blind to the situation Iím in. What have come of my choice is my children and their father, now, have a loving relationship that will benefit them for the rest of their lives. Thatís another scar they wonít have to carry into the future. However, they wonít have a model for how a man in love with his wife would treat her; and vice versa, how a woman in love with her husband would treat him. They wonít have that baseline for assessment of their future relationships.

Whether to divorce or not, every choice has its intended and unintended consequence, every choice is a trade off.

After all the ugliness that has passed between us, my husband and I have a truce, friendship and respect for each other. Together we have done good things for our children. Our family life is harmonious and nurturing. Thatís not to say that our marriage is stronger, or that itís ideal, only that, it is what it has to be at this point.

My husband wants to spend the rest of his life with me. He wants to fix all the wrongs between us. For the last few years, he has consistently prioritized us over everything. He is tender, caring, remorseful and repentant. Iíve very little to complain about. But Iíve already fully soaked in the truth of what I am and have been to him. And Iím still essentially the same person.

Was I 50% at fault? Was it me that drove him to an affair? Was there something wrong with me? Am I just unlovable? The answer is, I am exactly good enough and thatís why he wants me in his life, but heís not in love with me. When itís not right, itís just not right.

Once I had felt anger and bitterness at having been cheated out of the chance to make a fully informed choice. But now I see my part in this mess. Just as he had actively misled me, I was complicit in believing the lie. Maybe thatís why I can understand him, because didnít I do the same thing? He was everything my parents wanted for me. As it was for him, I let the grip of fear blind me to signs of trouble. I was too weak, too afraid to face them. At some point one has to stop blaming others, and take responsibility for onesí role in a situation. As much as he did, I also make choices that led us to this point.

The good part of looking at us objectively is that, I was able to draw the line between his part and my part. His motivations came from within him, and Iím not taking responsible for it. For my part, Iíve learned that avoidance of my own weaknesses is futile and insidious. Iím facing my fears and trying to be stronger. Learning to understand and forgive him and forgive myself, isnít about being a doormat, it is about letting go of fear, anger and bitterness; thatís a lesson, in itself, worth learning.

If thereís anyone who has read to this point, if maybe youíre experiencing something similar; I want to tell you that youíre stronger than you think you are. Carefully examine your fears, because they can divert you from your path towards happiness.
Post #283518
Posted 23 June 2017 20:42


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I have read, innersense, and my heart breaks for you you talk a lot about 'him' but what about you?
I can't begin to tell my own story but I empathise totally. The children are everything! Is it only mothers who put the children first?
I have so much admiration and respect for you.
Post #283522
Posted 26 June 2017 19:38


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Aww thanks wrknic, I'm alright my life is great in many other ways. I wouldn't be able to share this if it is still raw for me. The way I see it now, happiness is something you generate for yourself, it's an impossible and unfair task to ask of anyone else.

I think men love their children too. If my husband didn't, no amount of persuasion could have made him do his job.

I'm sad that you can empathize. In this case it is better to be blissfully unaware. {{hugs}}
Post #283561
Posted 26 June 2017 20:11


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My days of ignorance are long gone, sadly.
Thanks for the hug 🤗
Post #283562
Posted 28 June 2017 18:06


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....











G.S., You were always a bright spot in my life. Thank you
Post #283578
Posted 05 December 2017 21:35


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Holey cheeses!! Why does the view count keep increasing? I didn't think there were that many active members at any one time. I never expected any interest in these incoherent rantings of some weird random woman.

I really, really hope it's a click by mistake. If by chance your life have been affected by infidelity, then I feel for you. I don't mean to advocate one choice over another. Every choice comes with a price. If you have read between the lines, you know, I'm not especially virtuous, I'm not even a nice person. Because if I am, I would divorce him for his sake. But I won't because I believe this is better for my children.

I guess all this came out because I was angry. Angry at all the judgement from every direction. That before I even recognized there was a problem, he had done his rounds with his mother, his family, his friends, his colleagues as he let slip here and there my lack of whatever. Even though we have acknowledged the problem between us, and he is now as open and devoted as you'd want a husband to be; I'm still continually on the receiving end of some harsh assumptions from everywhere. Why is it that people take the fastest leap to the most hateful conclusions?

What does one say to one's mother in law about her perfect son? How does one keep the family drama from negatively impacting the children? How does one respond to his friends or colleagues that would not negatively affect his status and livelihood, and hence the children's life?

I guess I am saying this because the people in your life can't. We'll smile and bare it, but it hurts all the same.
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